echase
Outfield
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 94
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| | 10/20/09 at 10:33 AM | Reply with quote | #1 |
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We all know Gruden left the team with no talent, but Raheem has made EVERY wrong decision since he has taken over. After we end this season hopefully at 1-15. I cant see keeping Raheem..
I would throw every dollar at Coach Dungy, not that the Glazers are spending. Who else out there can build a team and attract free agents?
Cause its UGLY now...
echase
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sventology
Moderator
Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 59
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| | 10/20/09 at 01:58 PM | Reply with quote | #2 |
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The Glazers aren't going to go out and get anyone until Gruden is off the books... unless the Bucs go winless, then they'll be forced to.
IF they do go winless, look for another no-name until the financial situation with Man-U gets settled, collapses altogether or they sell the Buccaneers; whichever happens first.
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JustaBuc
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Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 443
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| | 10/20/09 at 03:20 PM | Reply with quote | #3 |
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What in the world makes you think that Dungy can build a team? The team that Gruden left with "no talent" on it managed to have successive 9-7 seasons. Don't buy what the local media hacks are selling you, this isn't Grudens fault, remember those same guys were telling you what a bust Carnell Williams was, now? They wonder why he isn't given the ball more often. These are the same guys that told you that it was Gruden's fault that Clayton didn't perform, now? They wonder why he hasn't been cut yet. The Glazer's have not supported this franchise and THAT is why you have very average talent. Dungy would never take this over, why? Because he would have to do what he has NEVER done before, build a winner.
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WesleyWildcat84
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Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 898
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| | 10/21/09 at 11:39 AM | Reply with quote | #4 |
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Which explains why Tony did such a great job with a 6-10 season before tearing it up with Sam Wyche's team. Tony's never taken over for a coach that made the Bucs look bad... naw... We should have never hired Dungy and we would have won with Mr. Five-dash-Two. Either Tony built a winner and parts of that Super Bowl team (parts, not all, before I get the same "but Gruden brought in HALF the team!") or Sam Wyche deserves another chance, because he was a genius.
I'll take Tony and his playoff appearances (nearly beating the "Greatest Show on Turf" if the offense could have gotten it together) thank you!
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Mr_Lucky
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Registered: 12/31/08
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| | 10/21/09 at 01:48 PM | Reply with quote | #5 |
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Dungy built the Tampa Defense. He and McKay worked well as a team.
Tony's philosphy was defense wins a game and while in Tampa he proved it.
Tony didn't know squat about offense - just remember his OC's? Mike Shula? Todd Christiansen? What jokes
That's why Gruden was brought in to the get offense going.
At this point it's important to look back to know where you came from so that the team can move forward.
My personal belief is that Morris is not the right guy - and it's not just because the 0-6 start. I'm sorry but I don't want a HC who's a players BFF like Morris tries to be. I like what I heard a player from the 49ers say about Singletary - that Singletary is like a dad who wants to put you over his knee when you screw up.
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Ronsmissingsleeves
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Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 378
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| | 10/22/09 at 09:16 AM | Reply with quote | #6 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by echase
We all know Gruden left the team with no talent
That's not true and a pretty pathetic statement. Maybe if Tampa didn't run off a good head coach, we wouldn't be in this situation. Player's cut AFTER Gruden was fired: Galloway, Brooks, June, Dunn, Garcia, Bryant, McCown, Bennett, Troupe & Carter (I might have missed one or two).
Dungy did "help" build the defense, but let's not forget Kiffin. Dungy took over a team that had Lynch, Brooks, Sapp, Nickerson, Maybury, Rhett, Culpepper and Moore to name a few, so it wasn't like he was starting with what Wyche did. The future was looking pretty bright for him.
I would love to have Dungy here in a front office, GM position. I think he would bring a winning attitude back. But to come back and coach would not work. He's been here and done that and couldn't get it done. Let's move up, not even.
Mike Holmgren keeps coming up lately. It's said he wants to come east. I just don't see his name being as big as a Cowher or Shannahan. But then let's look outside the big 3. How about a Jeff Fisher or Jack Del Rio? I wouldn't mind either one of those guys.......
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JustaBuc
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Registered: 03/05/09
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| | 10/22/09 at 09:29 AM | Reply with quote | #7 |
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Quote: I'll take Tony and his playoff appearances (nearly beating the "Greatest Show on Turf" if the offense could have gotten it together) thank you!
And that say's it all Wesley, you were happy with those playoff games under Dungy, together with Dungy's offense that couldn't get it together. I wonder, what exactly was your personal experience with either Dungy or Gruden? Dinner, handshakes, anything? Or what your local media hacks say? Sam Wyche never got the opportuinty to work with the future HOF's that he drafted, so we do not know what he might have done. Look, I was happy with Dungy until 2000 when it became very clear that he would not get it done and was wasting the very best years of those HOF players.
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WesleyWildcat84
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Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 898
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| | 10/23/09 at 08:27 PM | Reply with quote | #8 |
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If you notice how I change how I write this, it's because I went for immediately blasting back for taking two sentences of my quote clearly out of its sarcastic context.
Quote: Dungy would never take this over, why? Because he would have to do what he has NEVER done before, build a winner.
Read the entirety of my post (which was mocking your remark).
And what you quote says nothing of what you wrote.
Okay Buc, you win, Sam Wyche was a genius and should still be coaching the Bucs, so that Tony Dungy can't get that defense to carry the team and have enough offense to make it as far as he did before Gruden took them to the promised land.
Did Tony Dungy FINALLY make the Bucs win for the first time since John McKay?
My point is that Dungy built that team and handed it over to Gruden (or if you read my post, where I gave Gruden due credit).
Quote: Either Tony built a winner and parts of that Super Bowl team (parts, not all, before I get the same "but Gruden brought in HALF the team!") or Sam Wyche deserves another chance, because he was a genius.
So which is it Buc? Do you love Sam Wyche and think the team would have ever made it with him at the helm, or did Tony Dungy actually make the Bucs relevant in the first place?
What's your personal experience, because I'm not biased by that. I've seen the guy, and I mean "seen" as in looked and saw that he was present, not talked to, when he went to a track meet I was at, and his writer for his first book used to be staff at a church I went to. So full disclosure aside, the media hacks didn't make up a tradition of futility that plagued this organization. Maybe Wyche would have been good, maybe Gruden could have won a Super Bowl with Oakland, we'll never know, so sideline that argument.
You admit that you LIKED Dungy as I did. He built this organization into a winner, or atleast was the caretaker for when the turnaround happened. He got the first years of those future Hall of Famers, which aren't their easiest years.
I LOVED it when Gruden took the team to the Promised Land, and when he took us for a ride a few years later, but after the Super Bowl year, money or no money, the coach is the guy who gets slapped with wins and losses. So blame anyone, but no one will deny that Gruden had a good run and is in what is essentially a two-man debate over who was the Best Bucs Head Coach.
If you go by the coaches unconnected to each other and the team's history, then Gruden it is, by merit of the Super Bowl (as people say that they'll trade in playoff appearences to win a Super Bowl). If you go by who made the Bucs relevant, it is Tony Dungy. Between Wyche and Dungy, I'll take Dungy. Gruden didn't build a defense or create a system that is immitated across the league. Dungy did, and it carried Gruden's team to an extent (with Monte holding down the fort). Dungy had the attitude to make the team win, Gruden made the offense work and took it over the top. If I remember right, Sapp had an analogy for how Dungy got them to a point, and then Gruden pushed the right buttons and added his flair and took the team to the Super Bowl and won.
Without Dungy, I don't think there is a Gruden, or even a Gruden trade.
What cannot be denied is that the finest years of the Bucs happened under the watch of Tony Dungy and Jon Gruden.
Anyways, what may influence me to like Dungy over Gruden might be due to how their transcendence. Dungy is the good Christian man who doesn't raise his voice, and worked his way up, as opposed to Boy Wonder, who is a feisty guy who forgets the names of his kids; who also worked his way up, but is way younger. No one denies the Gruden is a football genius, or that Dungy is a world class individual.
As life goes, sometimes it's not about how good you are, but how much people like you as a person. Gruden's not a bad guy or troublemaker, but he isn't the calm, cool, collected Tony Dungy either.
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JustaBuc
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Registered: 03/05/09
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| | 10/24/09 at 08:51 AM | Reply with quote | #9 |
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Wesley, you had me at...
Have a Buc weekend. 
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Pharside11
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Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 409
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| | 10/25/09 at 09:21 AM | Reply with quote | #10 |
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Ronsmissingsleeves "Maybe if Tampa didn't run off a good head coach, we wouldn't be in this situation. Player's cut AFTER Gruden was fired: Galloway, Brooks, June, Dunn, Garcia, Bryant, McCown, Bennett, Troupe & Carter (I might have missed one or two)."
Ummm are any of these players playing right now? Pretty sure they are not, at least not in the NFL... Maybe June is but from what I remember hearing a couple weeks back is he wasn't doing Jack.... I'll give you McCown, obviously he would have been better than Leftwich or JJ, we would still probaly be 0-6 with this Defense though...
As far as Gruden, a Super Bowl can only by you so many mediacore seasons, don't forget after SB he did not have one playoff win, you have to show some progress, at least with Freeman we got a 50/50 chance of having a QB here longer than 2years....
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JustaBuc
Pitcher
Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 443
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| | 10/25/09 at 11:03 AM | Reply with quote | #11 |
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Dungy also didn't win a playoff game following the Colts SB win. I keep hearing that stat, one game had Chrissy at QB, the other an injured Garcia and against the eventual SB winning Giants. FYI, most of those players that were cut, the ones that could not get signed by other squads? Do you really think they would not be an upgrade over what we have seen so far this season? As fans we want to win now, not 3 years from now, or trust that these penny pinching owners will be competitive with their dollars over the next two years and build a winner. I do not think Raheem is ready to be a HC, I do think that both Dungy and Gruden lived out their usefulness at HC's here, however the problem here lies at the source, the Glazers. I will not miss them when they get this franchise sold.
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Ronsmissingsleeves
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Registered: 10/05/09
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| | 10/26/09 at 11:33 AM | Reply with quote | #12 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Pharside11
Ummm are any of these players playing right now? Pretty sure they are not, at least not in the NFL... Maybe June is but from what I remember hearing a couple weeks back is he wasn't doing Jack.... I'll give you McCown, obviously he would have been better than Leftwich or JJ, we would still probaly be 0-6 with this Defense though...
As far as Gruden, a Super Bowl can only by you so many mediacore seasons, don't forget after SB he did not have one playoff win, you have to show some progress, at least with Freeman we got a 50/50 chance of having a QB here longer than 2years....
Pharside11,
Instead of taking my quote out of text, read the message I was replying too!
Echase started this thread off by saying "Gruden" left this team with no talent. Get it straight - it was the new regime - not Gruden! So quit laying the blame on him. We had enough talent last year to go 9-3 and end up 9-7. All those players cut are still better than what we currently have. And for only having mediocre seasons after GRUDEN'S superbowl win, I guess 3 division championships is "mediocre". So what would you call this year,...or Dungy's years for that matter?
"at least with Freeman we got a 50/50 chance of having a QB here longer than 2years...."
So that's great! What does that have to do with winning football games? He could suck, "but at least he was here longer than 2 years...." Shaun King, Rob Johnson, Brian Griese, Chris simms, Bruce Gradkowski, Tim Rattay....all here 2 years or more. Where they at now?
Picking Freeman as our #1 pick shows how much disarray this team is in!
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WesleyWildcat84
Sports Animal
Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 898
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| | 10/26/09 at 02:36 PM | Reply with quote | #13 |
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Quote: Okay Buc, you win, Sam Wyche was a genius and should still be coaching the Bucs, so that Tony Dungy can't get that defense to carry the team and have enough offense to make it as far as he did before Gruden took them to the promised land.
Isn't it great when guys have fun with sarcasm?
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Mr_Lucky
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Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 618
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| | 10/26/09 at 03:19 PM | Reply with quote | #14 |
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Did anyone else notice Raheem picking up the headset before sending in Freeman?
I wish they would have shown the person on the other end of the line - was it Dominik or one of the Glazers.
"Can I plu-leeze use my new toy Massah? I really wanna see what he can do."
Raheem is going to be here next year because as impotent and dazed as he is Raheem is a company boy and plays the puppet role very well.
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ABNRML
Water Boy
Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 11
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| | 10/26/09 at 03:43 PM | Reply with quote | #15 |
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It don't matter who is the coach for the Bucs. It's up to the owners to spend some $$$ to get some key players. The locker room has nothing but cry baby's they do finger pointing etc. There is no "Veteran" leaders in the locker room. I feel "VERY" bad for all of the Buccaneers fans that go and spend all that $$$$$$$$$$$ to go watch them when there home playing "CHEAPBALL" If I were the fans I would put a add in ther paper to sell there season tickets and try to get your $$$$$ back. The only people that are laughing to the bank is the Owners and it's does not matter what the record is the only thing the owners want is '"YOUR MONEY" that is all. Even the owners are "very" happy to have the Usf Bull's play in there stadium too just think how much $$$$$ there making off of a USF Bulls home game. It's going to a long time for the bucs to go to the Super Bowl and I can tell you this The Bucs head coach will never get there and he has a 3 year contract. |
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