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620 WDAE > Forums > Buccaneers Talk > QB Cutler for the Bucs?
 
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Cashman
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Registered: 11/11/08
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    03/16/09 at 10:44 AMReply with quote#1

Jay Cutler has made it known he wants out of Denver. Good pickup for the Bucs or not? Isn't it time they draft a young QB and bring him up through the system?
chubby
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    03/16/09 at 01:41 PMReply with quote#2
Cutler for sure! The last 2 yrs combined he's had over 8,000 yds passing. We cannot pass that up. BUT

There is always a but, I don't think the Broncos will take draft picks and we cant afford to give up any of our "good" players
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WesleyWildcat84
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    03/16/09 at 04:08 PMReply with quote#3
Send Cutler and his whining butt up to Siberia/Detroit so he can go 3-13 and finish the season behind Daunte Culpepper.

I could argue stats, I could argue that the Bucs have Josh Johnson in the wings in case McCown goes down (and Griese is good for emergencies), but I'll leave those to the wayside for a few points.

1. The Bucs could pile up the yards with the talent they have with a good coachable and capable Quarterback.  Jeff Garcia was merely capable and had good ball control numbers, and HE made the Pro Bowl.  Pro Bowler Luke McCown?  Give him every opportunity to succeed and it could happen.

2. Both Jay Cutler and Luke McCown had to deal with being effected by the same trade (and they still are).  Jay Cutler has been whining and crying that he would be playing for the Bucs, if he would have been traded.  He's gone cookoo for Cocoa Puffs over a trade.  What if Cutler was ineffective and benched?  "Trade me Coach McDaniel's, Trade me!"

Luke McCown has quietly gone about his business and answered the question with his usual class to the table saying that he understands it, but what can he do?  I know what he can do, and that is to silence anyone who wants an outsider now. 

3. Josh Johnson.  You want the Bucs to develop a young guy?  They started last year and people have been talking about this kid.  They drafted a young Quarterback last year, and he's getting his education and he'll play eventually, unless McCown really blows it up.

4. Draft Picks.  Unless Cutler costs a 4th Rounder or later, don't mess with him.  The Bucs need the early draft picks to shore up the Defensive Front Seven, not to waste them on a cry baby with talent. 
Mr_Lucky
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    03/16/09 at 07:20 PMReply with quote#4

Should the Bucs go after Jay Cutler?

 

On one hand you have a very young Pro Bowl QB who’s thrown for lots of yards and seems like a ‘young Brett Farve’.

 

On the other hand I get the sensation that he’s a spoiled brat. I mean complaining and being offended because there was talk about you being traded? Then putting up your house for sale, not attending a fundraiser, etc., talk about a drama king!

 

So the main question is this – is it worth giving up the #19 pick and more for Jay Cutler?

 

I don’t doubt that Cutler would be an upgrade over McCown but at what price?

 

Personally I would rather Denver trade Cutler to Detroit for the #1 overall pick
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WesleyWildcat84
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    03/16/09 at 08:49 PMReply with quote#5
Jeff Garcia, Pro Bowl QB, awesome.

Anyways, give McCown a long chance to show what he can do, and maybe he won't light it up for 4,500 yards, because he won't have to.  The Bucs threw for nearly 3,800 yards last year with who?

Cutler had Marshall, Royal, Stokley, Sheffler, all with over 500 yards and Daniel Graham with 389 yards and a few others.

Garcia/Griese had Antonio Bryant... and... who else got over 500 yards?  No one did.  However, if you go by the theory "Just Win Baby!" Then let's present a little more evidence:

Denver was 8-5 going into Week 15 with a chance to clinch. 
Tampa Bay was 9-3 going into Week 13 with a chance to clinch.

Our Tampa Bay woes are well documented in this town, but let's look at Denver and how "big boy" did versus how Tampa Bay did.

Week 14
Garcia at Carolina (lost 38-23), 24-38, 321 yards, 5 sacks, 2 TDs, 0 INTs

Week 15
Cutler at Carolina (lost 30-10) 21-33, 172 yards, 3 sacks, 1 TD, I INT 
Griese at Atlanta (lost 13-10 OT) 26-37, 269 yards, 4 sacks, 1 TD, 1 INT

Week 16
Cutler vs. Buffalo (lost 30-23) 25-45, 356 yards, 1 sack, NO TDs, 1 INT 
(8 rushes, 30 yards, 2 TDs)
Garcia vs. San Diego (lost 41-24) 21-34, 232 yards, 2 sacks, 1 TD, 2 INTs
(6 rushes, 45 yards, 1 TD)

Week 17
Cutler at San Diego (lost 52-21) 33-49, 316 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs 
(2 totes, 4 yards)
Garcia vs. Oakland (lost 31-24) 17-33, 257 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

For fun, I could break out all of the NFC South/AFC West games since those conferences played each other.

Denver finished 8-8, the Bucs finished 9-7 and both were against inferior competition in inferior conferences. 

However, let's score the comparison:

Garcia vs. Cutler (at Carolina) - Garcia tossed for 149 more yards, 1 more TD, and 1 less INT.  Garcia wins this comparison, and that was 1 week apart.

Week 15 - Griese throws for 97 more yards.  Go Bucs!

Week 16 - Cutler throws for 124 more yards, ran for 1 more TD, passed for 1 less TD, one more INT.  Cutler seems to have done better.

San Diego - Cutler at San Diego threw for 84 more yards with 12 more completions and 15 more attempts.  Garcia ran for another TD.  Because Cutler was much more pass happy playing catch up, this doesn't really work so well.  I declare this a push.

Week 17 - Cutler gets 59 more yards with 16 more attempts and completions and 1 more pick.  I'll consider this a push, even though I like the fact that Garcia had a better yards per completion and attempt.

So over 5 comparisons, I like two for the Bucs, one for Cutler, two are hard to compare.  Actually it's 3-1-2 in favor of the Bucs if we decide that "Wins" are a fair way to compare QBs.

Maybe I'll stack up the common opponents and see how that went, but Tampa Bay almost beat Denver with Cutler.  Tampa Bay's QBs kept getting injured.

Tell Jay Cutler to go to Minnesota and buy me a sandwich.
Mr_Lucky
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    03/18/09 at 04:49 PMReply with quote#6
As the drama continues the one question a lot of fans have forgotten is this:
 
What do the Bucs have that Denver would want?
 
Remember if Denver gets rid of Cutler they NEED a starting QB. Who could they get as a STARTER?
 
Stafford in the draft? Sanchez in the draft? DOUBTFUL to both these choices. I mean giving up a PRO BOWL selection for an unproven college QB? You've gotta be nutz.
 
Trade Luke for Jay? Somehow I doubt the Denver fans would be in favor of that.
 
How about Jay Cutler for Derek Anderson from Cleveland (hmmm that has potential) so what can we give to Cleveland so they give up Derek?
 
How about we give Cleveland Alex Smith. Then Cleveland trades Derek Anderson to Denver and we give Denver our 1st round pick? Then Denver gives the Bucs Jay Cutler and his attitude?
 
The only problem is that this KILLS the Bucs defense this year. So why not offer Denver out 2009 1st round pick and take their 2009 3rd round pick (#79 overall).
 
Heck just to be friendly why not thrown in Bob Griese too?

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WesleyWildcat84
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    03/18/09 at 10:26 PMReply with quote#7
2 thoughts:

1. The only reasonable thought I could pull out of that was Cleveland being involved in a trade.  I've heard that one, but it involves Brady Quinn to Denver and Jay Cutler out of Cleveland.  What would Cleveland want?

Anyways, Dilfer and Herm Edwards were talking about "Fit" or "No Fit" for all the potential suitors, and both said Tampa Bay would not be a fit, THANK YOU!  This was on NFL LIVE on the four letter.

2. How hilarious would it be for Denver to get back the man that came right after John Elway in Denver?  BRIAN GRIESE!!! How funny would that be, Chris Simms and Brian Griese battling it out in Denver.  Tampa Bay laughs it's (hee haw) off, while Denver goes further in the tank (Jay Cutler is a .500 Quarterback, not his fault he can't play defense, but he's T.O. with an arm).

Oh, that's juicy... Denver trades Jay Cutler to Buffalo for Trent Edwards!  Marshawn Lynch, T.O., Jay Cutler in the same town?  The Town of Team "Boy I Love Losing Superbowls" is relevant again, but not in the way that they had planned.
Chrispy0515
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    03/18/09 at 10:40 PMReply with quote#8

I really hope that we end up saying NO to the Cutler deal and instead focus on us getting some defense, and Luke McCown will do just fine if he ever gets the fair chance he deserves.
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WesleyWildcat84
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    03/18/09 at 11:17 PMReply with quote#9
You're speaking our language.

Speaking of defense, Jamie Winborn is still out there.  He's 30 and he's actually an Outside Linebacker... hmm...
blitzboarder
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    03/20/09 at 07:34 PMReply with quote#10
 
 Two first round picks for Cutler.   That gives Denver this year
and next year to land a 1st round quarterback.  That is a fair deal
and they should take it.
WesleyWildcat84
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    03/21/09 at 12:51 AMReply with quote#11
Blitzboarder, anything beyond a 4th Round Pick and only a 4th Round pick is all I believe he's worth with his issues.  That and the player minimum with incentives. 

Please present your argument because forfeiting 2 1st Round Picks when we need those building blocks for some guys who, yes, are proven, but also aren't going balistic on their team.

Cutler: "I'm angry because you were going to trade me..."
Cutler: "I'm ticked, trade me."
Broncos: "This guy's schizo."

You can atleast reasonably release a 4th Round Pick.  Maybe we can Jake Plummer him out of there with a 7th Round pick, that would be great. 
Chrispy0515
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    03/21/09 at 01:00 AMReply with quote#12

No offense Wesley but the guy is a top 5 QB and is still improving after only two years, so anytime you have someone like that they are gonna command a very high draft pick to trade him. Now with that being said I still do not want him here because we need all the draft picks and cap space we can get, so that we can strongly address several other holes on this team.
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WesleyWildcat84
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    03/21/09 at 06:42 AMReply with quote#13
Top Quarterbacks (not really in any particular order):

Peyton Manning 
Eli Manning,
Tom Brady,
Philip Rivers,
Ben Roethlisberger,
Drew Brees,
Donovan McNabb,
Carson Palmer,
Kurt Warner,
Matt Ryan,
Chad Pennington,
Joe Flacco,
Tony Romo,
Aaron Rodgers,
THEN
Jay Cutler.  He's a fringe top half of the league QB with a nice supporting cast and a bad attitude.  Yes he has the talent to be great, but he's a bum.  He can go to Tennessee as their #3 to hold Kerry Collins jock and join Vince Young in therapy. 

Rivers, Peyton, Brees, McNabb, Palmer, and Romo send Jay Cutler beyond a Top 5 Quarterback in my mind.  Ben, Eli, Rodgers, and I forgot Brady in my Top 5 (how did I do that) shoves Cutler out of the Top 10.  I named 4 other starters that I'd faster trade for.  Anytime you can avoid a malcontent who is a gunslinger (not needed, the Bucs need a ball control QB who can go beyond the 20s).

Now in all seriousness (and not to say that I'm not serious that I think that he's just outside the Top 15 QBs and I'd argue beyond Top 10), I know that Cutler may demand a high draft pick and a high cost, but my point wasn't "Yeah, Denver will give us Cutler for a 4th Round pick and a minimum contract so that can be deactivated and retained on the team."

My point is that I wouldn't waste anything more than that on this cancer.  I'd want him on a short leash... of course we could room him with Jerramy Stevens to see what that would do to him.

The draft picks are the reason that I'm waiting for Blitzboarder to give me some spectacular reasons why this future "Hall of Shamer" should join our team for two 1st Round draft choices.  As for cap space, eh, we have plenty of it right now.  Who knows, maybe we actually have 3 QBs on the roster better than Jay Cutler, but we haven't seen them with a supporting cast to blow him to bits.

Big Ben and Eli should have shown you that a Gamer can get the job done with a great running game, good receivers, and a top defense.  Ben and Eli just make the big plays they need to make.  Tom Brady isn't the most gifted, but he's put up and shut up.  Jay Cutler can be the next Dan Marino, but you know that he'd love to be Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson who won a Super Bowl instead of just getting there or thinking about it.

As for the rest... (*-I'd take them over Cutler) 

*-Garrard - Yeah, I like him better.  Not as gifted, but a Gamer.
Schaub - Cutler is better.
Campbell - Does anyone remember Washington has a QB?
Hassellbeck - Too often hurt, never liked him like they do.
*-Cassel - Not as physically gifted, but he's better (both had nice supporting casts and a revolving door at RB)  Thigpen is nice too.
Russell - JaMarcus?  Oh boy...
Culpepper/Stanton - Detroit, 'nuf said.
Smith/Hill - Not as gifted, not as cranky.
*-Edwards - J.P. who?  Good, not great, I'd take him before Cutler.
Clemens/Ratliff/Ainge - Jets could use Cutler
T. Jackson - Minnesota could use Cutler
Simms - Denver could use Cutler, Simms could use a spleen
Delhomme - Gamer needing a rebound or he's toast.
*-McCown/Johnson/Griese - Return Cutler to sender.
*-Anderson/Quinn - If Cutler was on this team, I'd trade Cutler.
Kyle Orton - Holy crap, Chicago has a single starter for once.

That's 21 teams that I went through that I'd take their QB over Cutler, and that includes Tampa Bay.  Houston, San Fran, Washington, Seattle, Oakland, Detroit, Minnesota, Denver, Carolina, the Jets, and Chicago are the 11 that I'd put in the market for Cutler, and some of them have their starters.

The Bucs need a game manager or Gamer, not an egomaniac.
blitzboarder
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    03/21/09 at 12:14 PMReply with quote#14
Two first round picks for Cutler.
This is better than the deal the Jets gave up for
Favre.  Denver is not going to deal with a 1st and a 3rd or
4th.  The actually traded up to get Cutler a few years ago
so forget about that and about your conditional next year's
pick. Maybe if we were picking in the top 10 this year but at
19????  GET REAL!  Be serious,  2 first round picks take it or leave it.
Mr_Lucky
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    03/21/09 at 01:42 PMReply with quote#15

Leave it the


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